The Very First Ok Oh Danny Bloomberg Mid Morning Coffee Interview, 11:25ish EST

(cafe sounds, light indie rock in background)
Ok Oh: So you really believe there is no, um, no, ah causality in the world?
Danny: Yeah, I'm fighting against my inclination towards causality, I think that's more the way I'd put it.
Ok Oh: Really?
Danny: Yeah, because I think it's false.
Ok Oh: You don't think if you go out into the sunshine and you're fair skinned, you're going to get a sunburn?
Danny: I don't think it's that simple. It's not because you're in the sunshine that you're getting a sunburn.
Ok Oh: But it's uh, it's um
(Robinson exclaims, "Obama!" and the microphone switches off.)
(Unrecorded wrestling with Robinson over phone supremacy.)
(Microphone switches back on, more exclamations of "Obama!" which turns to "Oba-Danny!")
Ok Oh: So you, so let me get this straight, like, it's not that simple but there are are many, you think there are just random occurrences that happen on all these different levels that that. . .
Danny: No, to recap our discussion Todd, for the sake of this recording. . .
Ok Oh: No, I'm asking for a new discussion, this is a new discussion
Danny: Well we're talking about the same thing, I mean if you are going to talk about causality then you are going to have to talk about every single event that precursed this event.
Ok Oh: So why is that not cause?
Danny: Well, ok, I'll have to review my reasoning on why that's not cause but um. . .
(laughter) Beacause it's like, if you, if something that (ahem) if you have, um, zero, right, then there is no 1, right? But if you have, um, because if there is no, or if you have 1, there's no 2, right? because 1 is everything right, and you can't distinguish even a 1 if you only have 1. If there's only 1 there's not even 1, you know what I'm saying? If there's only one thing in the world, that thing is not even a thing, because there is no. . .
Ok Oh: There's no fractions?
Danny: No! Not if there is only one. You can only. . . like the Taoist say "from one comes the two and from two comes the ten thousand" things right?
Ok Oh: Right.
Danny: From two comes the ten thousand things, not from one, from one comes two, right? Ok. that's like a huge. . .
Ok Oh: That's a massive jump.
Danny: That's a huge metaphysical jump right there.
Ok Oh: Yeah! I buy that.
Danny: Ok, well I'm not ready for that I guess right now. (laughter) I'm talking about one, because I think that's the only way I can conceive of this, I guess basically.
Ok Oh: But why is it only it only one? What is the one?
Danny: The one is everything that came before the act.
Ok Oh: Why is that just one thing?
Danny: Because it's everything, everything is one.
Ok Oh: Well, everything exists in one. . .
Danny: No, everything is one.
Ok Oh: Ouuoghh. . .
Danny: The only thing everything is not, is zero, nothing. . .
Ok Oh: Right well that's for sure. That's not even a, that's a, that's a nonstarter.
Danny: Yeah, nothing, we can't even talk about.
Ok Oh: yeah, because zero is a totally ridiculous idea.
Danny: Yeah.
Ok Oh: But, why why is it that, the one does not, one contains everything, why is, why is everything not a fraction?
Danny: Everything is one, I'm not saying that one contains everything, you're saying that.
Ok Oh: Oh.
Danny: Everything is one.
Ok Oh: Right.
(Robinson, "Ooh, ooh awooah, aaaagh)
Danny: Yeah.
Ok Oh: So that, that, you know, is the same difference.
Danny: Well I mean you can talk about fractions, fractions are sunlight, yeah.
(Robinson, "boobowaaaagh")
Ok Oh: Right, any number of fractions together. . .
Danny: That's not the cause of the suntan.
Ok Oh: No but. . .
Danny: Everything is the cause of the suntan, so that's why we are talking about everything, one.
Ok Oh: That's right, yeah.
Danny: Yeah. (Robinson, "Papa!") I mean, we can talk about the, we can try to speculate percentage of what one, that sunshine had on your sunburn, uh, I don't thing we'd succeed in that speculation with any kind of accuracy. . .
Ok Oh: Right. Yeah.
Danny: So there is no point in really talking about it.
Ok Oh: But that doesn't mean that there is no reason.
Danny: I mean, there are lots of reasons, there's infinite reasons.
Ok Oh: Yeah. But you don't thing there's causality.
Danny: Well I think hen you're talking about the everything you can't specify it as a thing!
Ok Oh: But you can't. . .
Danny: Because if there is only one, then there's. . .
Ok Oh: But then why are you making the leap. . .
Danny: . . .there's nothing. . .
Ok Oh: . . .why are you making the leap to um, irretrievable, inexistence of causality? Where is that leap coming from? It's like the leap from one to two.
Danny: No it's the leap from. . . it's the staying at one, rather than going to two. It's not the leap from one to two. (laughing)
Ok Oh: But you're saying that, but you just said that within the one. . .
Danny: Yeah. . .
Ok Oh: . . .there's all these things happening.
Danny: Sure, ok, yeah. Well, even then we've already broken two into ten thousand thing though already, in our heads. We're already there. so you don't want to start talking about that. . .
Ok Oh: So you don't want to say that. . .?
Danny: No, I'm hesitant. . .
Ok Oh: You just said that there is just the one.
Danny: . . .now I don't understand that.
Ok Oh: Right, okay, so you're just saying you don't understand causality.
Danny: I mean, I understand the inclination towards causality, but yeah it doesn't make any sense, no.
Ok Oh: Huh.
Danny: I mean, if you think about things happening, just happening, and not happening because. . .it's sort of liberating, but it's also terrifying, you know? That means, that means the world is like totally without meaning, this is like what Lacan. . .
Ok Oh: But thats, you're bringing in meaning again, you there you go with your meaning.
Danny: Yeah well its on. . .
Ok Oh: You bring that in. . .
Danny: . . a separate separate topic, ok, separate topic.
Ok Oh: Yeah, ok, I just, I just wanted to point out that you're bringing in meaning.
Danny: Yeah ok, but I think that's an interesting facet of this whole thing, is the, that's what interests me about it, you know this is like from all the Lacan and Zizek shit that I read a long time ago. . .
Ok Oh: Yeah, yeah yeah. . .
Danny: It's all like about this concept of the "real" being the lack of symbolization. . .
Ok Oh: But I don't see that, the the the necessary. . . well I mean, the, thats, this is where I come back to my point that like you make a decision to decide that the one entails no cause. Whereas you could just as easily make the decision to decide that the one entails, everything is the cause.
Danny: Oh I see. . .
Ok Oh: And so . . .
Danny: . . sort of like a "free love". . .
Ok Oh: yeah, well, you make a decision. . .
Danny: a "love" philosophy. . . where mine is a nihilistic philosophy.
Ok Oh: Yeah, or it's just . . .
Danny: That's basically just the difference.
Ok Oh: . . .it's just one philosophy versus another philosophy. . .
Danny: Right, but I'll call it. . .
Ok Oh: You can call it whatever you want.
Danny: Yeah, I call it "love."
Ok Oh: It's simply one or the other. (laughter) You, you're making a decision to go one route, whereas you could easily make, just as easily make the logical decision to go the other route, there's no necessary.
Danny: I guess I just don't have it in me to make that other decision that's not my. . .I mean maybe it's a fundamental, psychological. . .
Ok Oh: But it doesn't matter either.
Danny: . . .thing, because . . .
Ok Oh: Well, you know, for you it's liberating, and really scary, on the other side, it's liberating and scary as well.
(Robinson, "woah, whooo")
Danny: I don't think it's scary on the other side. . .
Ok Oh: Well there you go. . . I think you're, I think you're into that scariness. . .
Danny: Well yeah I am. . .
Ok Oh: For me it's scary to think that everything is cause.
Danny: Really?
Ok Oh: Sure. Why not? But that's our emotion. And I wanna know why that is, what's the reason for that, my emotional reaction is different from yours.
Danny: Yeah, I donno. . .yeah, it's weird.
Ok Oh: So there has got to be some sort of reason for that.
Danny: Do you like rollercoasters?
Ok Oh: No. I hate them.
Danny: God, I looove rollercoasters. . .
Ok Oh: Oh ok I can't stand them. . .
(laughter)
Danny: Did you ever when you were a kid, did you ever spin circles until you were so dizzy you fell over?
Ok Oh: Yeah, didn't like that either.
Danny: Oh loved that.
Ok Oh: No.
Danny: I broke my nose that way.
Ok Oh: Oh you did (laugher)
Danny: Or close to it.
Ok Oh: Robinson likes that.
Danny: See, when he gets old enough to discuss this we'll have to review it. . .
Ok Oh: Right.
Danny:. . .And kind of see, maybe that's the point of . . .
Ok Oh: He is going to be a, be a proselyte of. . .
Danny: I find it very exciting the concept that nothing has a cause.
Ok Oh: Um, well I think that's an emotional response.
Danny: Oh yeah, but I find it so exciting and so risky and dangerous. sort of counter intuitive.
Ok Oh: It entices you.
Danny: It goes against everything I think we have learned in our lives like we were taught you know.
Ok Oh: (Aside, "oh no Robinson, keep that one on.") Um, well that's interesting.
Danny: That's one of the things I find interesting about it.
Ok Oh: I think you basic, I think your basic thing is, uh, your basic hangup is meaning. You're worried about meaning.
Danny: Am I worried about it? Meaning?
Ok Oh: Yeah, you seem to be worried about meaning. Like what is the meaning?
Danny: I see what you're saying, yeah. . .
Ok Oh: Yeah.
Danny: Sure.
Ok Oh: A major worry for you.
Danny: Oh yeah? (laughter) I mean, is it not for you? I guess it is. . I would think it is for everyone.
Ok Oh: Yeah I guess so but I. . .
Danny: I have kind of given up meaning, for a long time now.
Ok Oh: Yeah, me too!
Danny: Yeah, ok, so I'm not worried about it, actually.
Ok Oh: For me it's very, everything is kind of biological. . .
Danny: Yeah.
Ok Oh:. . .and insofar as it's biological the meaning resides in the biology.
Danny: Well I see that there is no meaning, see I guess that's
Ok Oh: Yeah, well. . . see there you go!
(laughter)
Danny: You think the meaning is there in something you can't explain or understand, I just say there's no meaning.
Ok Oh: Well either way the meaning is there in something you can't explain or understand.
Danny: But this. . .
Ok Oh: Either way. .
Danny: Yeah but this kind of the crux of my original argument which is about reason for things. . .
Ok Oh: Right.
Danny: . . .and how people love to feel like there's reasons even though they don't know what those reasons are they want to know, (Robinson, "eeeyoop, eeeyooop") they want to believe something somewhere away from their (Robinson, "eeeyoop, eeeyooop") consciousness there exists a reason.
Ok Oh: Foundationalism.
Danny: Is that Foundationalism?
Ok Oh: Yeah.
Danny: Ok.
Ok Oh: And I'm saying that reason is enough in the coherent set.
Danny: What do you mean the "coherent set"?
Ok Oh: The coherent set is the like every, everything is, is a little ball of, of reason and meaning, all, every, all of existence. Its a little ball. And it works within itself completely. There is no. . .
Danny: Outside of what, I mean, what is. . .
Ok Oh: I don't know outside. . .
Danny: Another set of meaning?
Ok Oh: Sure.
Danny: But isn't everything contained in the same, isn't, aren't you, your set of meaning the same as every other set of meaning?
Ok Oh: Sure. Who's to say?
Danny: So it's all one set of meaning.
Ok Oh: Who's to say? yeah.
Danny: So, I mean that's what, the same thing as . . . the one, everything.
Ok Oh: But the fact that the coherent set exists itself lends itself, for me, the fact that I have a biological existence, um and like you know, I, I don't know what I'm seeing and hearing and smelling and eating. Like I don't know until I decide what it is. Right?
Danny: Right. . .
Ok Oh: And so kind of like, oh that's what I do that's. . .
Danny: Oh I see, that's the meaning you are making. . .
Ok Oh:. . .I'm propelled. . .
Danny: . . in your brain.
Ok Oh:. . .um yeah, I'm propelled in a certain direction and that propulsion is the meaning. I simply have the propulsion.
Danny: Right ok, so that's the same thing I'm saying, except you're calling it "meaning." I don't know why you're calling it meaning.
Ok Oh: But I, but I can can call it meaning and you can call it non-meaning, and there's like, but that's just a decision we make, to either accept it as meaning or to not accept it as meaning.
(long pause, cafe sounds, Robinson is silent)
Danny: Well I guess I thought meaning was supposed to mean something else. (laugher) I never thought of it that way. . . Like, I mean, what is meaning mean, I guess. . . that's the question.
Ok Oh: Right. Well does it, well is meaning just a personal decision to be ok with things. . .
Danny: An arbitrary association. . .
Ok Oh: It's basically a personal, yeah, an arbitrary, well, it's a personal arbitrary decision to be ok with things. That's meaning.
Danny: Does it mean there's meaning to symbols. . . um. . . that we share that the meaning of right, and so the lexicon, language . . .
Ok Oh: You would hope.
Danny: Yeah more or less.
Ok Oh: Yeah.
Danny: More or less. . .that's meaning.
Ok Oh: That's one kind of meaning. . .
Danny: But people say like. . .
Ok Oh: . . .but that's meaning within a, that's meaning within the greater set of meaning, is it not? And the greater set of meaning for me, is we have all these symbols and these things that we share. . .
Danny: Hmmm.
Ok Oh:. . .because we are.
Danny: Because we are. So this, so that's your personal feeling, that's your personal identification of meaning.
Ok Oh: But that's the ground level, base level, like, kind of nexus of life. Meaning is.
(Robinson grabs microphone, "oh, mah my papa!")
Danny: What is?
Ok Oh: That idea of what is meaning. (aside to Robinson, "you want this?" Robinson, "Mine!") Alright, final thoughts.
Danny: I don't know what the fuck you're talking about right there you (Robinson, "Mine!") I wish, I would like to continue this discussion further to understand what you're trying to mean by that (Robinson, "Mine!") cause you lost me, (Robinson, "Mine!") like your lexicon escaped me. (laughter, Robinson, "Miiiine!") so I have to, so I can only summarize that there actually is no meaning because our meaning are not at an intersector.
Ok Oh: Ok.
(Robinson whimpering, "Mmmmiiine.")
Ok Oh: (close to the microphone) Danny is smarter than me.
Danny: (closer to the microphone) Toddy's a, Toddy's an asshole!
(laughter)
(microphone turns off)

The initial spark for this interchange can be found here.
Lacan & Zizek

This interview is actually the first of two parts. It as only after transcribing the first half of this interview that I realized it really is the second half that has the magic. Unfortunately I only have this one bad drawing of Danny. A second bad drawing will be produced this weekend, and the second half of the interview will then be posted. Thanks for your patience.

Many thanks, once again to Marlow & Sons Cafe/Grocery/Oyster-Shack for providing the ample needed space for the interview.